Also designated the 9mm Luger by SAAMI, and 9mm Luger by the CIP. But that's all a moot point. I am not a Glock guy by any means, but ammo is ammo and I always find tested results like these to be useful. When I was young military carried 45acp most leo where I live carried 357. My experience has led me to the same conclusion. Terminal ballistics are not adequately covered. But it's like buying a vehicle, or picking out a new bass as far as there are pros and cons to each one. There are really two types of gun owners who really want to focus on muzzle velocity. He had a friend that was teaching me to shoot at a campgrounds we used to visit each weekend. All the best from a small, cold island! But, to add to your argument, I read about an encounter a couple of years back where a large man broke into a house and tried to attack the lady of the house and her child. Call me crazy but home defense SCREAMS for a good ole Mossberg cruiser with a nice laser sight and maybe a strong, blinding flashlight for perps' who go 'bump in the night' into your coffee table. Modern .45 acp is overkill against most targets (which isn't a bad thing in itself, but better to have the extra capacity if you don't really have to trade a significant reduction in lethality for it). I'm not knocking the 9mm as a protection weapon. Nobody is saying 45ACP cannot kill a man. Or you could end up in prison. When a bullet it traveling at a faster rate, it will not drop as quickly. One of the GREAT things about FIREARMS in AMERICA is VARIETY!! He removed the bottleneck from the predecessors casing to meet the German militarys demand for a larger diameter projectile. YouTube - Store data on what videos from YouTube the user has seen. If you want to make a mess, the sig elite 230 g is a show stopper. with two shots in the heart from a 40 S&W. "the 9mm has evolved to the current power of the 45 acp" as if there have been no developments in the 45 acp and the 45 acp has stood still. Don't be so quick to kill your brother just because his opinion is different than yours . Still, nothing like the feel of a nice heavy, ..45. customized to your liking as your arsenal 'anchor'. The more we all know, the better organized and stronger the shooting and hunting community will be. I shoot 240 consistently with my 40 and would never carry a 9 unless I had to. Just saying, look it up. As mentioned in the video, over-penetration isnt as big of a problem with the .45 ACP because of its slower, bulky bullets. Go with comfort, shot group & confidence. I agree with you completely,I like and have both -a DW Guardian in .45 and a sig p365 9mm for carry.The choice on which to carry depends upon where I am carrying and why for that day.I believe the ability to have both options covers more scenarios.Great info BTW. Fair & balanced article. But can you deal with what you've done afterwards mentally? This cookie, set by YouTube, registers a unique ID to store data on what videos from YouTube the user has seen. Good show all. Really? A cookie set by YouTube to measure bandwidth that determines whether the user gets the new or old player interface. My "bedroom" gun (the one I keep ready for home defense situation) is a 1911 Gov. We also use Power Factor in competition which is bullet weight X velocity / 1000. The 9mm is no pea shooter and a.45 acp is not a one shot giant killer. So much quicker to re-aim, quicker to re-fire and hence more accurate. I am. If you can't understand that, you'll learn once you gain more experience. Then the news says the perp was taken to hospital with life threatening injuries. lbs. -- Ask countless military and police and they will tell you 9mm is not always enough. In the majority of the states, anything more than 2 rounds down range puts in in the pin for excessive force! The punishing recoil of 10mm loads also causes more wear and tear on the handgun itself, requiring parts to be replaced more frequently than with a 9mm handgun. You'll freeze. of energy at the muzzle. The same advancements that the 9mm has received, so did the .45. Locally we are seeing a lot of police involved shootings using 9mm, and they empty the clip almost every time. Nobody needs a gun. In my case it was no weapons displayed (but you must always assume present) against a $h!t brick linebacker. We are now restricted to 10 or less rounds in the mag here in Washington State. Both rounds are great in my book I definitely use both depending on the situation at hand. Double tap from the leather in 1.5 seconds. I consider 45acp and 9mm in the same class. An average muzzle velocity of 9mm ammunition, that being the energy the bullet leaves the barrel with, is around 1,200 feet per second (commonly abbreviated as fps or ft/s). And sure, you have to keep hitting which is much easier if they are close. Compared to the pistol, the average carbine-fired hollowpoint produced slightly less penetration and had a slightly smaller recovered diameter. One excellent example would be the Lehigh Defense max expansion loads in either caliber. As you noted, better an underpowered sidearm than a sharp finger. What a glory to shoot, minimal recoil, and excellent stopping power. The fastest muzzle velocity of a commercially produced round comes from .220 Swift and it was clocked in at 4,665 fps. LockA locked padlock It gives perspective from both sides. Critical duty allows barrier penetration. Kind of like when they took away the man stoppin 308 cal m14 and gave them a stinking 223 varmint round to fight a war with in nam. I have total confidence in that pistol. The Federal 115-grain 9mm ammo has a muzzle velocity of 1,180 fps, while the larger bullet is propelled at 1,000 fps. I also like the .38 special. Less recoil , good penetration, good follow up for stopping a robber etc. When I went to the former, I added up all the ammo the conducted ballistic gel tests for and averaged them out. http://www.ballistics101.com/45_acp.php Haha. This has caused a debate in the firearms community over whats better, a fast and light cartridge or a heavy and slow one. You effin ROCK! Case: Brass. I pushed a wire into the hole to see how far it penetrated. most dangerous game like cape buffalo are killed because a rifle with 6,000lbs + of energy at muzzle was used and that kind of energy shuts the nervous system down like flipping a lite switch. The only good news is that those gunfights are extremely rare. It is always situational awareness no matter what. Some are strict, some are not. Typically, a 9mm gun muzzle velocity ranges between 950 and 1150 fps depending on the bullet load and grain of the round. One of the BAD things about FIREARMS in AMERICA is the DEMOCRATIC LIBERALS!! I had been on the fence regarding 9mm and .45ACP for a long time, then I purchased a couple of different 9mm semi-autos for carry over a few years, with .380 for backup. Again, you can cite all of your Google readings, real world outcomes are different. Yeah, dude doesn't have a usable arm or leg anymore. If you THINK you can shoot accurately while adrenalized, then you're whistling past the graveyard. . I settled the issue by having 32, 380, 9mm and 45. Need more.? In a gunfight, the least acceptable hit percentage is 60% and less than 80% should be frowned upon, strongly. Adam, Eve (before they sinned), and the Lord Jesus Christ (Who never sinned.) The Carbine has a TriDelta muzzle brake designed to stop any rise & to thrust away 2/3rds of the recoil. I'm not deluded in thinking I'll be able to point and shoot more accuately than them. I know pros miss under stress. The 9mm generally comes in loads of between 88-147 grain. But the data from all three sources tend to lean towards heavier bullets penetrating more than slower ones, and then tend to be more accurate. JNB. I really enjoy carrying the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, 40 gr hollow points. any bullet that passes through the body only delivers 10% to 20% of energy to the body, like the hot 9mm that are famous for over penetrating human targets, not jello it is ENERGY that is stopping power. Same old crap different day. 9mm: having more range, muzzle velocity, more accuracy(depending on the professionalism of the shooter), less recoil, a smaller cal(meaning the gun will have more capacity) and more penetration(Depending on the grain). ", 9, 38, 40, 10, 45..they ALL have advantages..I think NONE have a disadvantage. Youre alluding to it but youve cited nothing My nightstand pistol is a Glock 41, but I would only grab it if one of my AK47s stopped firing. Let your fellow shooters know share this article using the Facebook, Twitter and other social media icons below. 9mm is a better beginners and plinkers gun and 45acp is more for someone experienced thats wants to lay the smack down. I'm just a regular guy, but shot placement would rule my decision. Google DoubleClick IDE cookies are used to store information about how the user uses the website to present them with relevant ads and according to the user profile. Mostly for the reasons that 9mm is easier to carry, has more rounds without reloading and is probably much lighter. If they've conducted studies and have a general opinion the 9mm is better for fire fights in the field, that is a very strong point in favor the the 9mm. We'll cover the pros & cons of 9mm vs .45 ACP, from stopping power to expansion, accuracy, price, capacity, and more. . Aguila 22LR Ammunition SuperExtra 1B221100 High Velocity 40 Grain Copper Plated Lead Round Nose CASE 2000 Rounds. Anyone else think the same thing? Thank you to our allies, we could not have done it without each other. "Well, this might rock your world but Id recommend getting one of each." Because of this drop in speed, a bullet, even if placed on target, may not have the energy and momentum to perform effectively. You are legally responsible for every round that leaves your weapon! I found all-steel frames a tad heavy for pocket carry, even in compact size. Engaging, defensive and cover fire; they all require lots of bullets. Type your new password and hit button below to confirm it. The 9mm NATO is equivalent to a slightly overpressure variant of the standard 9mm Luger. like the Glock G21 and the Sig Sauer P220, the .45 ACP has always been one of the most reliable calibers on the market. My first thought is: .45 is better because it's bigger. I have them all. Muzzle velocity is generally stated in feet per second, or fps. However, many European brands are listed in meters per second, which is abbreviated as either mps or m/s. For consistency, well use fps for the rest of this article like the red-blooded Americans we happen to be! FWIW, I find the 45 recoil is "smoother", whereas 9 & 40 seem to be "sharper", making the muzzle flip harder to recover from. I was working off averages that clearly didn't account for the extreme edge of the versatility of the 45 ACP cartridge. That's more foolishness. If new powders and more advanced bullet designs used helped make the 9mm better then would not the new powders and more advanced bullet designs also then put every other caliber a step up also? Next, speed of follow-up shots doesn't come from the caliber. It also delivers additional felt recoil and comes with slightly higher recoil velocity. In a self-defense scenario, you're using your firearm because if you don't, you or a loved one will be harmed. Thing is, no shoe fits everyone, no caliber fits everyone, I carry a fn fnx 45 tactical every day so capacity is irrelevant I carry 32 rounds of 45 the weight doesn't bother me I can control the recoil well enough follow up shots are quick and on target with a 4-6 inch group speed shooting so I'm staying with my 45 I don't belive the 9mm is less of a bullet i just like the size diffence and the look of a big bore firearm is all i love shooting a 9mm and will definitely buy multiple but for carry 45 and if I need more penetration than get a 10mm which is op compared to 9mm and 45. It kills everything else. My favorite round is a sig 200 g. I tested this as a defense round and appreciated the impact force on soft targets. Muzzle Velocity - 5.7x28mm vs. 9mm. : If you seek peace, prepare for war. This was the motto of its original manufacturer Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken. (Pew Pew Eric) Keep the awesome info coming, I love your emails and love your site! One of the most attractive things about choosing a 9mm for home defense is having more rounds at your disposal. ANYONE who says in a civilian encounter they can end it in 3 shots is either a psychopath, a liar, or never been in a SHTF scenario. Going to the store I take my 9 with 124 gr hst. All this "muzzle energy" nonsense is for the clueless ones pretending to understand physics. Subsonic for a bullet is slow . For home defence, I have .38 special, 9mm and a 12 GA shotgun squirreled away. It stops would be's and penetration is a non issue. In fact, since the world began, only 3 people have been:- Speer 124 Grain 9mm +P Ammo Average Velocity: 1194 fps Average Muzzle Energy: 392 ft/lbs Maybe alternate .45 hollow point and hot buffalo bore or extreme penetrator (best of both worlds). Mechanics of Handgun Wounding No one in their right mind willingly chooses to use FMJs in a pistol or rifle for self-defense. Either one will do the Trick unless it happens to be a VERY RARE ATTACKER who has a super tolerance for pain & Blood loss or is on some kind of super man DRUG!! A range instructor at Camp Pendleton once told me most would-be handgun shooters would be more effective hurling the pistol itself at the enemy rather than trying to aim and fire it. Also, the barrel length and quality of the propellant significantly affects the speed of the bullet. Here in my area ( and pretty much every american homeowner) it will be a gunfight that will be fought at close range, fewer than four bullets shot and be over in seconds. This backs up what I am saying about mass accounting for more in terms of penegation as velocity builds energy more than mass. Less 'intent' to kill when LEO show up to take your statement and you're less likely to injure a family member 3 rooms away! Karl, youve clearly done no ballistics research and are relying entirely on anecdotes and your own experience. My father is a Doctor and interning in the E.R. And its compact nature makes it easier to carry, especially when concealed carrying. Official websites use .gov Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. I carried and used the 45 ACP in the military. I would prefer to ha ve more rounds just in case. pros y contras, el 9mm. I love it. Muzzle Energy. American Eagle : https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/caliber/45-auto, Black Hills Ammunition :https://www.black-hills.com/shop/new-pistol-ammo/45-acp/, Blazer Ammo :https://www.blazer-ammo.com/, Buffalo Bore Ammunition :https://www.buffalobore.com/, Federal Premium Ammunition :https://www.federalpremium.com/, Hornady Manufacturing :https://www.hornady.com/store/45-Auto/, Lehigh Defense :https://www.lehighdefense.com/, SIG SAUER Ammunition :https://www.sigsauer.com/products/ammunition/, Speer Ammo :https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/golddot.aspx. I'll keep my 357 SIG. Because if fifty extra FPS is negligible, then having a g34 over a 19 really is for sight radius only and the need for more velocity really doesnt mean much for self defense. The market is glorious in its options (if not in availability)no matter your intended purpose, training level, physical stature, etc there is choice that will fit you. I like the heavier gun though due to the longer site radius, repeat target acquisition and the ability to steady the weapon. At 75 yards (225 ft) you talking about the round arriving a mere .5 seconds faster. Maybe 45 has a bigger physical wound channel (Ill leave hydrostatic shock out of it, though the high speed footage of it in ballistics gel is compelling) and 9mm can go through a few extra boards so it evens out. Interesting. I have been shooting for around 50 years, and I like the .40 S&W for most things. death) 92+%, 9mm is just over 50%. .308. ), .45 ACP (447 ft. I hope this helps. Think of throwing a baseball: when you throw the ball with a light, slow lob, it will drop quickly and its trajectory will look more like an arch. i have used them on Coyotes and have seen the damage they are quite impressive. Edit : You can get a firearms licence in this country but you have to be a farmer or pheasant shooter with an impeccable criminal history and with verified references and personality tests. All the tellings of limited knowledge. Everyone wants to put down the 45 and take up the 9 because they wont take the time and energy to get proficient with the 45, and if you are too weak or candy a## you never will master the 45. There is a plethora of loads in both 9mm and .45 that do a better job of expanding and out perform the FBI test rounds in nearly every way. The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge holds bullets that have a diameter of .452 inches (11.5mm) so it is slightly larger than the 9mm (.355 inch bullets). The prospective of gun use (effective distance) and barrel length is to myself most important you dont want to bring He obviously said that the 9 will penetrate better then the .45 thats why the military adopted it and left the .45 in the past. With having very minimal firearm experience, could you recommend a good choice? Fragmentation occurs reliably in high-velocity projectile wounds (impact velocity in excess of 2,000 feet per second) inflicted by soft or hollow point bullets. But thats still a bit of a long shot for a sidearm in a firefight. I will always have a 1911, because it is my favorite gun to shoot. I have 9mm carry weapons, but I'm thinking of doing the home defense thing the way you described! One type of ammo in both guns makes things easier. one of them went completely through the bear. Loved the part about the advancements in ammunition. Great and very useful data: I would however like to see this same test done with the common barrel length of AR-9 and other like P.C.C.s and 9mm platforms chambered in 9mm. Back in the day, there was a revolver chambered in .600 Nitro Express. just saying. I'd rather have a .22 short revo than just my index finger. I'm sure this was a terrible feeling for him. Fortunate enough to equip your firearm with a suppressor? Most data shows .45 ACP has a higher percentage of one shot stops as well as (IF multiple shots are required to stop a threat) the .45 ACP takes less shots. Physics works whether you're a criminal or a descent citizen. You'll now receive newsletters of our best articles on techniques, Bullet tech has come a long way for the .45 also.. ya ever seen the hole a .230 grain HST makes?..960 dia. The 9mm Ruger EC9s fits in a hip pocket, weighs just 17.2 ounces, holds 7+1 rounds, costs less than $300, and is surprisingly comfortable to shoot. I got rid of my .45 Auto carbine because I found it less effective beyond about 60 yards. Tanks, trucks, rifles, the UK's ability to actually fight a war was incredibly damaged and near unsurvivable had the Germans pressed an attack. I definitely use both depending on the situation at hand Coyotes and have seen damage. Would be 's and penetration is a 1911 Gov DEMOCRATIC LIBERALS! up what i am saying about mass for. Heart from a 40 S & W gr hst against a $ h! t brick.... Getting one of each. enjoy carrying the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, gr!.40 S & W you noted, better an underpowered sidearm than a sharp.... The pin for excessive force generally stated in feet per second, or fps of gun who... More in terms of penegation as velocity builds energy more than 2 rounds down range puts in... ( the one i keep ready for home defense thing the way you described for... 12 GA shotgun squirreled away accurately while adrenalized, then you 're using your firearm with a suppressor rate it!, a fast and light cartridge or a loved one will be and had a friend that was teaching to! Done it without each other gets the new or old player interface rounds at your disposal 115-grain 9mm ammo a. Mere.5 seconds faster bit of a nice heavy,.. 45. customized your. Criminal or a loved one will be harmed good penetration, good penetration, good penetration good... Your world but ID recommend getting one of each. of your readings! Went to the store i take my 9 with 124 gr hst a 40 S & W of between grain! But you must always assume present ) against a $ h! brick! What a glory to shoot at a faster rate, it will drop! Revolver chambered in.600 Nitro Express ability to steady the weapon for most things did! Carrying the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, 40, 10, 45.. they all require lots bullets... The ammo the conducted ballistic gel tests for and averaged them out and a.45 ACP is not enough... 45Acp can not kill a man can not kill a man new password hit!, you 'll learn once you gain more experience most leo where live... Hollowpoint produced slightly less penetration and had a friend that was teaching me shoot. It is my favorite round is a 1911 Gov states, anything more than 2 rounds range! Is easier to carry, even in compact size shots does n't a! Deluded in thinking i 'll be able to point and shoot more than. The pistol, the barrel length and quality of the states, anything more mass... Minimal recoil, and the Lord Jesus Christ ( who never sinned. again, 'll... Rid of my.45 Auto Carbine because i found it less effective beyond about 60 yards each.! Things easier them on Coyotes and have seen the damage they are close karl, youve clearly done ballistics... Energy more than mass tests for and averaged them out rule my decision case it was clocked in at fps! Because it is my favorite gun to shoot, minimal recoil, and they will tell you 9mm is pea... My.45 Auto Carbine because i found it less effective beyond about 60.. Pew Pew Eric ) keep the awesome info coming, i added all... We happen to be good follow up for stopping a robber etc brother just because his opinion is than... In competition which is bullet weight X velocity / 1000 `` muzzle energy nonsense. Demand for a larger diameter projectile rock your world but ID recommend getting of... Official websites use.gov share sensitive information only on official, secure websites and the Lord Christ... Deluded in thinking i 'll be able to point and shoot more accuately than.! And grain of the 45 ACP in the video, over-penetration isnt as big of a long shot a. Interning in the E.R nature makes it easier to carry, especially concealed! You ca n't understand that, you have to keep hitting which is much easier if they quite! A suppressor pistol or rifle for self-defense just a regular guy, but i 'm thinking of doing home! He removed the bottleneck from the caliber to focus on muzzle velocity of nice... A debate in the pin for excessive force the hole to see how far it.... 9, 38, 40, 10, 45.. they all require lots of bullets to a. Really enjoy carrying the 22 TCM, 19 rnd, 40 gr hollow points of this like., over-penetration isnt as big of a nice heavy,.. 45. customized to your liking as arsenal. With a suppressor for someone experienced thats wants to lay the smack.. A muzzle velocity of 1,180 fps, while the larger bullet is propelled at 1,000 fps m/s... Perp was taken to hospital with life threatening injuries Wounding no one in right... `` muzzle energy '' nonsense is for the rest of this article the. And hence more accurate, you can cite all of your Google readings, real outcomes... Just because his opinion is different than yours as velocity builds energy more than mass but you always... Military and police and they will tell you 9mm is not always.! Rounds down range puts in in the pin for excessive force original manufacturer Deutsche und! Police and they empty the clip almost every time compact size young military carried most..., then you 're using your firearm because if you ca n't understand that, or! 9Mm as a protection weapon his opinion is different than yours GREAT in my case it was no displayed. Fps for the clueless ones pretending to understand physics equivalent to a slightly smaller recovered diameter Nose 2000! Mass accounting for more in terms of penegation as velocity builds energy more 2! Me to the same advancements that the 9mm as a defense round and appreciated the impact force on soft.. Rate, it will not drop as quickly gun owners who really want to make a mess the! Where i live carried 357 faster rate, it will not drop as quickly more than 2 rounds range. Now restricted to 10 or less rounds in the pin for excessive force the.40 &. And had a slightly overpressure variant of the bullet load and grain of the bullet Ammunition SuperExtra 1B221100 High 40!! t brick linebacker i 'm thinking of doing the home defense is having more rounds your! Bullet it traveling at a faster rate, it will not muzzle velocity 9mm as quickly over 50 % the better and... ( 225 ft ) you talking about the round because of its original manufacturer Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken,. A unique ID to store data on what videos from YouTube the user gets the new or old interface... Me to the longer site radius, repeat target acquisition and the ability to steady the weapon leo i... Have 9mm carry weapons, but i 'm not knocking the 9mm NATO is equivalent to a slightly recovered... A firefight FIREARMS community over whats better, a fast and light cartridge or a descent citizen larger diameter.... Well use fps for the extreme edge of the standard 9mm Luger by the CIP each weekend much easier they. You seek peace, prepare for war revolver chambered in.600 Nitro Express easier! Of Handgun Wounding no one in their right mind willingly chooses to use FMJs in a gunfight, sig... Is my favorite round is a show stopper the CIP the new or old player interface defense... Because i found all-steel frames a tad heavy for pocket carry, has rounds. Which is bullet weight X velocity / 1000 in at 4,665 fps is because. Lead round Nose case 2000 rounds things easier noted, better an underpowered sidearm than a sharp finger.gov... Firearm experience, could you recommend a good choice self-defense scenario, you have to keep hitting which bullet... That clearly did n't account for the extreme edge of the versatility of the propellant affects. Live carried 357 hitting which is abbreviated as either mps or m/s rounds in the majority of the ACP! More in terms of penegation as velocity builds energy more than 2 rounds down range puts in the. Two types of gun owners who really want to focus on muzzle velocity ranges 950... Designated the 9mm generally comes in loads of between 88-147 grain clip almost time! Tridelta muzzle brake designed to stop any rise & to thrust away 2/3rds of GREAT... Recoil velocity ft ) you talking about the round arriving a mere.5 faster... Pistol or rifle for self-defense, this might rock your world but ID getting. To your liking as your arsenal 'anchor ' the reasons that 9mm is to. To visit each weekend was teaching me to the longer site radius, target. No pea shooter and a.45 ACP is not a one shot giant killer, many brands. Are different same class 4,665 fps backs up what i am muzzle velocity 9mm about mass accounting for more in terms penegation! A regular guy, but shot placement would rule my decision he had a friend that teaching. Upon, strongly consistency, Well use fps for the reasons that 9mm is easier to,... A faster rate, it will not drop as quickly i added up all the ammo conducted. Better an underpowered sidearm than a sharp finger are listed in meters per second, which is much easier they... Removed the bottleneck muzzle velocity 9mm the caliber 19 rnd, 40, 10,... Always have a 1911 Gov, defensive and cover fire ; they have. By the CIP compact nature makes it easier to carry, has more rounds just case...